Gutter replacement review. Very poor workmanship!
Let me preface this review first with a few points about me Homestar readers should be aware of.
1) I've been around the trades for most of my working life.
2) I am a retired former people manager
After reviewing this Remember Me Roofing may claim I acted unreasonable in my response to their offer to make it right however I wanted to ensure I took the time to discover how much damage had been done to my home and what needed to be repaired before I let them back onto my property. Sadly I had to be away on a business trip shortly after they installed the gutters. It was approximately a week before I had an opportunity to properly assess the job. During that interval the tone of my emails was less than complimentary. I commented and emailed RMR a few pictures of their poor workmanship plus I commented on their workers not observing Ontario's Occupational Health and Safety Act Regulation 851 wherein it "specifies that a worker who is exposed to a risk of falling from a height of more than 3 meters must wear full body harness and lifeline" RMR decide to cancel my invoice and walk away from the job. Below please see an exert from one of the emails I sent to RMR of the shortcomings I found.
Below please find a list of some of the items and issues that I feel need to be brought to the attention of senior management and/or owner of RMR. The gutters look nice at a quick glance but on close scrutiny the workmanship is shoddy.
Please note these are just the issues I was able to find while overcoming my fear of heights. I am in no way confident I discovered all the issues created by RMR.
FYI: The roof has 4 distinctive zones that RMR placed gutters upon.
1) Front Entrance zone
The front entrance area gutter spans approximately 24 to 25 feet with the downspout centered at the gutter's mid section.
It appears the installer began attaching the gutter at the north end (left side) of the run with a slight slope to the right and stopped left of or near to the downspout area.
It would then appear he repositioned himself to the extreme south end; raised the gutter up to achieve a slope to the left and attached the gutter brackets along the run working his way back to the downspout.
I believe this caused two issues:
A) The lowest point of the gutter is three to four feet to the right of the downspout.
B) By raising the gutter's south end upwards it caused the gutter's sides to bow inwards thereby leaving gaps between the facia and the gutter. This is causing the leaks, drips and streaming water when it rains.
Basic high school physics taught that no amount of attachment brackets will remove the extra metal causing the gutter sides to deflect . Additional brackets will only make the gaps smaller but spread them over a larger area.
I am not keen on RMR attempting to fix these issues with more attachment brackets.
I believe I know of a solution and am willing to discuss it with a qualified representative from RMR.
C) The majority of the attachment brackets are unevenly spaced and incorrectly installed. See attached pictures.
2) Garage and Living room Zone
The home's living room is located above the attached garage and is surrounded by a continuous gutter on three sides.
Issues:
A) I see significant damage to the drip rail caused when the installers removed the old gutters.
I cannot see evidence that any attempt was made to straighten or repair the bent, wrinkled and stretched metal before the replacement gutters were attached.
B) The gutter on the north side of this U shaped zone has a slope that is counter productive in that it slopes away from the downspout.
The gutter section slopes from the north west corner over the entire e length of the run towards the main house causing the water to pool as much as one inch for most of the run. See picture.
My wife noticed the slope looked wrong as the installer was attaching the gutter and pointed this out to him. The installed said the facia and soffit were at an angle causing the gutter to appear wrong. He said that he had used a laser level to install the gutter.
My wife did not argue the point but thought his answer was a bit odd.
I have subsequently checked both the facial and the gutter with my 6 foot framing level. The facial is perfectly level. This is the gutter on the north side slope towards the house and pools water.
C) On this Zone both the northwest and southwest gutter corners rise slightly upwards causing the same leaking and water pooling issues as described in the Front Entrance Zone .
D) Unevenly spaced and incorrectly installed attachment brackets on the majority of the gutter.
3) Main house
The main house has a continuous gutter on three sides
Issues:
A) Water is pooling on the west facing gutter run above the peak of the garage/living room. I checked this area with my framing level and found the gutter's is at it's lowest point some 9 to 10 feet from the downspout.
The downspout is higher than the gutter's lowest point by approximately 1/2 inch. Water pools in this area.
B) Same pooling issue found on the south gutter run several feet from the downspout..
C) Unevenly spaced and incorrectly installed attachment brackets on the majority of the west and south gutter.
D) East gutter run has one attachment bracket not fastened to the facia and is hanging loose in the gutter.
I was unable to see from my vantage point if the clips were properly placed over the back of the gutter but assume they were not.
No evidence of water pooling was seen on the east side.
4) Rear Addition
The lower addition was the only area I saw evidence the attachment clips were properly spaced and attached correctly as per manufactures specifications. No water pooling seen. Overall it appears to be done correctly. Thank you!
Other items
As mentioned in earlier emails we found gutter screws and roofing nails in our lane and on the street.
Numerous pieces of aluminum debris were found around the job site along with an old downspout left on my neighbour's patio.
While retrieving the downspout I discovered the damage to my home's facia which prompted my first call to RMR.
The following day's rain and my subsequent inspection led me to the above noted concerns.
Also something I find almost comical that someone from RMR either dropped or threw a gutter attachment bracket onto my neighbour's roof.
The bracket is located some 10 to 20 feet away from anywhere a RMR employee had any business being.
Lastly my wife brought to my attention that no one from RMR while at this property was wearing Fall Protection Safety Equipment. At least one employee on the roof for most the installation where the majority of the gutter work was conducted in excess of 10 feet above the ground. I believe this is a violation of the Ontario Labour Code and WSIB.
The issues identified above are not a quick fix.
I am looking to RMR for a detailed written proposal on what will be done to address my concerns before any replacement or repairs of the gutters are begun.
As mentioned above Remember Me Roofing cancelled the bill and walked away.
I would not recommended RMR for gutter work.
- Approximate cost of services:
- $2,200.00
- Company Response
Hello Bill,
The review is correct although exaggerated. Our installers made a few mistakes completing this eavetrough installation. They were rushed and it was unacceptable. Management got involved immediately. The homeowners house was not damaged, the new eave was not installed as per standard guidelines.
What is missing from the review was our customer service and response. We did not merely “cancel my invoice and walk away from the job”.
Our team responded to all the customer complaints and accepted blame. We offered to have management come out during the fix to ensure quality, this was offered many times and emails ignored. Our emails were met with similar responses found above.
After numerous emails, I, (the owner) offered to replace the eaves fully without question. This was ignored and met with complaint. It became apparent that the trust was broken and was beyond repair. In order to resolve the issue we offered to delete the invoice and not charge the client for our services. We advised we could come remove our installation at no cost. The client did not like this solution.
We recommend the client hire another contractor who he can have trust in.
It was our mistake. The client has not paid anything for our time or service. We feel this is more than reasonable and the client will have a better experience elsewhere. This is not our standard response but feel we are out of options.
We again apologize about your experience. Regards,